1. What is your view of Connie in Oates' short story "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been"? What do you think is the point of this story?
2. Discuss Oates' depiction of manhood in this story?
3. Your thoughts on the short story "Shiloh"?
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ReplyDeleteI’m not sure what Oates is saying about manhood because the only men in the story are Connie’s father and her friend’s father. The only thing said about the fathers was that Connie’s was never really around and her friend’s father didn’t even ask where the girls had been when he picked them up. I wouldn’t consider Arnold and Ellie men because they tried to dress and act like boys.
ReplyDeleteConnie seems like a young teenager finding her sexuality and trying to find her independence. She does this very recklessly and careless like a lot of teens do, but she did not deserve the fate Arnold has in store for her. I’m still a little unsure if Arnold is actually real. Even though the story is fictional the details about Arnold seem like a bizarre nightmare. It’s hard to imagine two very old men riding around in teenager clothes in a brightly painted car with random writing on the side, would not stick out. Even some of the things he says to her don’t sound like a person about to kill or rape you would say. I think one of the stories points is that teenagers think that they are mature enough for sex but they are naive to the dangers and consequences of being a sexually mature adult.
ReplyDeleteShiloh was confusing to me, but it seems like it was a story of how people refuse to look deeply inside their lives and relationships to see the issues and truths in them. Leroy and Norma won’t talk about randy, which means they can’t move on or come to terms with their lost. It seems both just find random hobbies to preoccupy their times and thoughts instead of facing the truth. When Leroy comes home he sees how distant he and he are but ignores her behavior and convinces himself building her a log house will be a simple fix to their problems. Even Mabel thinks a trip to Shiloh will magically fix things.
ReplyDelete1- I believe that Connie is trying to grow up too fast in this story. Yes, she's hormonal and what not as she's coming of an older age but she is still very childish in the way of getting attention and the way she's acting towards her family. I think that the point of the story is just to live life for how it is as of right now in the time. There's no reason to grow up any faster because there is just so much more you'll have to deal with along the line.
ReplyDelete2-Oate's view on manhood isn't really a great one. In this story she makes it come across like they have all the power in an every day life when they really don't have anything to feel so powerful over. Arnold Friend is not much of a friend but tries to convince others that he is to gain their trust and then does whatever he wants to do with him.
3-The short story Shiloh was just a plain weird story. I didn't see any significance in it what so ever. It really just seemed like everyone had a secret from one another that they didn't want to share with each other, no matter it be the dead child or Shiloh island.
Chardea, your comment about how Leroy and Norma try to evade the truth in "Shiloh" is an important one which points towards the fact that ignoring a problem or an issue doesn't make it go away.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Norma leave her husband? What is his fault, if at all?
Your comment about Connie's recklessness regarding her burgeoning sexuality is a good one. She likes attention and uses her looks to get it. She doesn't seem to have any enriching habits just yet and is much too preoccupied with her looks "..she knew she was pretty and that was everything" (978). she puts herself in precarious situations when she goes off with Eddie, a guy she just met. "She spent three hours with him, at the restaurant where they ate hamburgers and drank Cokes in wax cups that were always sweating, and then down an alley a mile or so away..." (979).
And yes, that said, no one deserves her fate in the end, irrespective of their chosen sexual demeanor. This story is based on a real story though.
Taylor's comment about Connie trying to grow up too fast is an interesting one. Why is she in such a hurry? What is she searching for? Is there some kind of a void in her life that compells her to seek attention from guys the way she does? Or is she simply being a teenager?
1.) I actually thought the story “Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been” was a great story. It truly shows how one can act when striving for independence as an individual. Connie (the main character in the story) tends to present herself like an “attractive adult” with her looks and clothing, and trying to meet boys, but forgets she is still a child in the real world. Connie wants to fit in with the crowd since she can’t at home with her mother. Her mother always sees her as a young child and tends to praise her older sister, and only complain about Connie’s actions and doings. However, when reality hits, Connie stumbles on her own feet putting herself in a trap, realizing she is not ready to “grow up” after all. For example when Arnold finally made his move, Oates says, “She cried out, she cried for her mother, she felt her breath start jerking back and forth in her lungs as if it were something Arnold Friend was stabbing her with again and again with no tenderness.” This story for me, serves as a lesson for all children and even adults. It sets the theme: Don’t grow up too fast when it comes to life; there is nothing to rush for. Unfortunately for Connie, growing up is all she seemed to care about, instead of just enjoying her young teenage years as a child. Connie doesn’t realize that “sex” does not make the adult. Maturity does.
ReplyDelete2.) In my opinion, Joyce Oates depicts manhood as a demonic creature. Arnold Friend, the antagonist of this story doesn’t seem like the ideal man, neither does Connie’s best friend’s dad, ho doesn’t seem responsible enough to keep an eye on the children. Although the father may “trust” the young girls, I still feel it is “his” responsibility to make sure the children are safe and in the right place. When I was their age, I wasn’t even allowed to stay out until 11pm, summer or not. It just wasn’t allowed. That right there says a lot for me. Another thing I realized in the text is the symbolism in Arnold Friend’s name. Arnold “Friend”. Arnold seems to force the false impression on Connie that he is her “friend” throughout the text, and even more…her LOVER. The symbolism is that he is not a “friend” at all. In fact, he is a stranger. I found this kind of creepy and foreshowing as I continued reading.
3.) Shiloh by Bobbie Ann Mason was also a very interesting, yet depressing short story. I actually enjoyed reading it. What I found even more interesting was how Norma and Leroy’s marriage seemed to dissolve after their infant, Randy passed away. Leroy’s return set a social barrier between the Moffitts making the even more distant. Norma, instead of having the whole female persona, instead carries the male one. She works out, has a job, goes to night class, and takes care of the house as to Leroy who does nothing. Norma seems to have no pity whatsoever over Leroy’s accident and recovery, and instead of taking care of him, she complains about him most of the time. To me, this is very selfish of her to act in such a way. She is very unappreciative to even spend time with her husband in the first place. I found the marijuana to be a sort of symbolic sign of the downpour of Leroy and Norma’s marriage, due to t the fact that people usually smoke marijuana for those purposes, as a sort of bodily relaxer. Concerning the marriage, Norma’s mother on the other hand, has this fixed mindset that a trip to Shiloh, Tennessee would patch up Norma and Leroy’s lost relationship. The thing is, it doesn’t help at all. Instead, the two discuss a divorce, rather than making up like Mabel hand in mind. All in All, this was a very depressing story. It was sad with the death of a baby (Randy), and death of the Moffit’s marriage.
-Tahliah M. Davidson
Terrific response, Tahliah!
ReplyDelete1. As Connie is described at the beginning of the story, she appears to be a typical 15 year old girl. Like most teenagers, She seems to be very self-conscious - always looking at herself at any given opportunity. She seems to believe that appearance is one of the most important things. "...she knew she was pretty and that was everything".
ReplyDeleteHer only discrepancy seems to be between her and her mother. It is mentioned that Connie's mother may be jealous of her because she is no longer as pretty. Her poor relationship with her mother may be the reason for her lack of depth as an individual. We can also extrapolate that her relationship with her father probably isn't ideal either.
At this point in Connie's life, she is beginning to have increased curiosity in boys. She is probably craving attention, but does not realize the consequences of strutting around a public place. At the young age of 15, she could easily be taken advantage of by older men. Her lack of parental guidance also contributes to her vulnerability.
2. Dr. Pruss made an interesting comment on monday. She said that Connie could not be held responsible for any of the things that happen to her in the story. There is definitely truth in this statement. This goes along with my thesis that we don't really have control over who we are. We are simply a product of our experiences and environment. However, what is stopping us from extending this idea inversely? We could just as easily say that Arnold Friend was simply following his natural desires as a man, and he may have had a terrible upbringing ect... therefore excusing him from responsibility.
I believe the author of this story is trying to make a point about the vulnerability of young females in a society that is focused on appearance. While the young female is focusing on her appearance, and may seek attention, she is inadvertently attracting unwanted attention from potential predators. The question is, where do we drawn the line of responsibility. Could one say the young females responsible when they are just trying to get attention, or the males responsible for following their natural instincts? It is hard to blame either one. In short, the author is trying to spread awareness to females about what trouble they could potentially be getting themselves into when seeking this sort of attention.
3. Did not read this yet, too tired.
Excellent analysis, Michael! You raise some terrific questions as well. The idea that we don't really have control over who we are since we are products of our surrounding, our experiences and so on is a valid one. But does it not hold true only up to a certain point? Is Arnold Fiend not accountable for his actions?
ReplyDeleteIs Arnold Friend not to blame for seducing and traumatizing Connie with his words, to her potential rape and death? Can we really justify his behavior as "natural instinct"? Besides, is it natural instinct for a male to prey upon young, confused, vulnerable girls the way he does? Is he not to blame for his actions even though he's a product of his environment since there is such a thing as free will and choices as an adult?
Great job!
Chardea's comment in class today that Arnold Friend seducing Connie with words first and then threatening her - as a dream, is an interesting one. It is possible interpretation of the narrative in the story, although we are mostly inclined to conclude that it is not a dream in view of the fact that the story was based on a real incident where the girl was murdered by the serial killer (Arnold). It would be interesting to prove this with textual evidence.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Connie is a big flirt that prides herself on being beautiful and better than everyone else. She feels that she can handle any situation that comes at her because she's better than everyone else. Until she finds herself face to face with Arnald who makes the confindent flirt feel powerless in a dangerous situation.
ReplyDeleteI think we basically covered what Connie's problem was in class. She is seeking attention and acknowledgment for guys, because her mother and family doesn't give it to her. As for what Oates' is trying to depict in manhood, I really don't know. To me Arnold Friend is not a man, his actions maybe related to a troubling childhood, but I don't think that's much of an excuse.
ReplyDelete1. My view of Connie in the short story “Where Are You Going Where Have You Been?” is that she was trying to get out of her sisters shadow. Her mother would always compare her to her older sister June and I know from experience that if my mother compares me to my sister and how we are so different I try even harder not to be like my sister. Being a younger sister is very hard at times because everyone thinks that you are expected to follow what your sister does and how she acts, but in reality it makes you try harder to be different. Which I think is what Connie was trying to do. I think the point of this story is to make young people aware of the dangers that are in the world today, because some parents don’t warn their children not to talk to strangers no matter what.
ReplyDelete2. I think Oates’ depiction of manhood in this story is not very good because in my eyes Arnold Friend is not really a man because no man should treat a woman or young adult the way he did not matter what she does. A man is supposed to be respectful towards a woman and not take advantage of her especially when she is a young teenager.
3. My thoughts on the short story “Shiloh” where that the man in this story was kind of taking on the female role in the way that he was knitting and couldn’t support the family because of his injury. Also I felt that they switched roles in the way that the wife was beginning to work out while the husband would just sit around and knit. That’s all I got from this stoy!
~Nicole Treschitta~
This story was very odd to me in the fact of the weird sexuality to it. However, it was very interesting how Connie is trying to grow up too fast. I believe that is part of the point in the story. In addition, the fact that appearance is not everything. She has a horrible mentality of life when she claims that she is beautiful and that is all that matters.
ReplyDeleteOates has a interesting theory on manhood. I can understand if creeps girls out when they read the story. It is also ironic that Arnold's last name is friend when it most obvious that he is not a friend to Connie but more of a creep that just wants to have sex.
Connie was missing something in her life. Her relationship with her mother wasn't all that healthy and often times that can cause rebellious behavior in a teenager. She knew she was pretty but she thought thats all she had. To fill the void in her life she used her looks to get guys and have fun. The story is sad but its realistic to today's world. There are a lot of horror stories about things like this these days and it's unfortunate. Connie is naive, she wants attention and she's young so doesn't understand that some things she does to get it will have consequences. She can't turn to her mother and I'm sure her relationship with her father isn't all that great either so she doesn't have a parental figure to talk to or look up to when she doesn't know what to do or is lost.
ReplyDeleteI thought Shiloh was a bit sad. If I were the woman I would have left him as soon as I knew he wasn't ever going to be home. But she stays and in doing so she is still committed to him so I thought it was selfish of her to leave him when he got home. Sure she was used to living by herself because he was gone for so long but when you marry someone you sign up for being together even when your apart. I felt bad for the guy, In the story the depiction of womanhood and manhood are both twisted. Norma has the strength, she works out and that's usually the male's role. The man was also more emotional and connected to the relationship and he needed Norma because he broke his leg and was 'helpless' which is the stereotypical woman's role.